All my posts were objective. If you find them trollish then I'd say you're too sensitive about it for some reason. You can say what ever you want about Lisp and I wouldn't be bother, for example.
>Here you did sweeping personal attacks on Perl programmers
Again, you're projecting. I said "perl fanboys on this site". That's much less broad but you seem to not realize there is anything else?
>start writing personal attacks there
Why do you take fair critiques of the language as personal attacks? I think you need to read pg's essay about ID again.
>Get a life or start writing code for a hobby.
Again with the personal attacks. I have a life and I code for a hobby. That doesn't stop me from correcting fan boys who spread misinformation or distortions of the truth.
That was an observation of mine. Perl fanboys are generally not capable of having a dispassionate discussion about perl's faults.
>That is a personal attack, without any data, on Perl fans in general.
Fan = Fanboy. It is a programming language. Being a "fan" of a tool is irrational. One should use the tool that works best (for some definition of best) and when that tool is no longer the best one should switch. Being a "fan" means to follow something even when it's not the best (e.g. Dallas Cowboys fan, even when they hadn't won a game in years). This is an utterly irrational stance for a tool.
By the way, the person who has been issuing the personal attacks here is you with your "go away" and troll accusations. I hope in time you can learn to be more civil in your discussions.
Link? I'd say your ID is too big (pg has an essay on it). If you say Lisp is crap, I'm not going to be offended even though I think it's a great language. It's something I use, it isn't part of who I am.
Having seen it, I can't help but say: lol! You took that one sentance to mean pg was upset that you were arguing with trolls? It looks to me like he thought you were trolling! All kinds of other people were still talking to the person you accuse of being a troll but only you got singled out and asked to stop. None of them and not even the alleged troll.
And again it was about perl. I think you seriously need to ask yourself why you're so incredibly sensitive about this subject. No one is criticizing you nor your family. Just a tool that has no feelings or emotions.
>You are a liar. Here is his account. It is at Karma -10 and it wasn't used after that troll session.
Oh my, it seems I've hit a nerve for some reason. In the post where pg called you specially out to stop, other people responded to the "troll". I wonder why it was only you who got singled out.
Further, you're assuming the guy was just a troll. Maybe he came on here, saw that even though this was supposed to be a more sophisticated crowd, there was a lot of perl support here, had one big fight and then decided it wasn't worth his time to bother.
>He was posting slams of about your level.
More misrepresentation from you. Most of his "slams" were a bit over the top, where as I'm just stating facts with less hyperbole than he had.
>You don't like Perl (not "perl") and write 10-20% of comments in discussions about it.
I used perl professional for a torturous 5 years. The internet made the correct decision to move away and I'm not going to stand by and let people use propaganda to bring it back. If you people want to keep on using it, go ahead, but stop dragging new programmers down your career dead-end.
>So you're just bullshitting here, as trolls do. And you got another comment out of me... :-(
The lady doth protest too much, methinks (I really love that one!). I'm having a conversation here. You're constantly screaming "troll! troll!" because you have no useful counter-arguments.
With all due respect, I don't think you're the one to know what "reasonable people" might object to. Your bias is as clear and well documented as mine if not more-so.
>>Your bias is as clear and well documented as mine
You've claimed repeatedly to be serious and only argue facts -- so now you not only lied but admitted to be a liar (in addition to your usual personal attacks; chromatic just noted that you're trolling, which you didn't try to contradict).
But the real problem for HN isn't bad trolls like you, it is fools like me that feed them. Bye.
>so now you not only lied but admitted to be a liar
Citation needed?
>chromatic just noted that you're trolling
Is English your native tongue? He quoted me and then claimed a "reasonable" person would be offended. I pointed out that he's a poor choice to make this call. I don't think a reasonable person would be offended at what I said at all. Only an irrational perl fanboy.
>But the real problem for HN isn't bad trolls like you, it is fools like me that feed them.
I'm not sure "troll" means what you think it does. It doesn't mean someone who has points you don't like but have no good answer for.
He quoted me and then claimed a "reasonable" person would be offended.
That's not what I wrote; you're putting words in my mouth. Even if, as you imply, my brain has been so irreparably damaged by my experience using Perl (among other languages) that I am incapable of rationality, that's still a disingenuous discussion technique.
>I think this is the kind of talk to which reasonable people might object.
So if you weren't saying a "reasonable person" would be offended what were you saying exactly? And you accuse me of using "disingenuous discussion techniques"?
This is the same kind of intellectual dishonesty people hate Micheal Moore for. Put some strange part in the movie, which is directing the audience to an obvious conclusion and then claim people are "putting words in my mouth" when they point it out because he never said the specific words.
>>points you don't like but have no good answer for.
Your "arguments" are personal attacks ("the lady doth protest too much", "irrational perl fanboy", etc, etc) and language slams without motivation (see e.g. list by chromatic).
You have no serious arguments -- e.g. what would be better than CPAN, Moose or MooseX::Declare. (You probably never used them, since you don't even know the name of Perl, but write "perl".)
And here is the crux of the issue, as I've stated in the beginning: you're identifying perl as part of who you are (again, read up pg on ID) and taking negative facts or suggestions as personal attacks. An "irrational perl fanboy" (the only part that would be a "personal attack", though generally directed at unnamed persons) is someone who does this.
>since you don't even know the name of Perl, but write "perl"
lol, I don't know anything about perl because I don't bother myself with your conventions? I don't get why people get sensitive about this triviality. If someone through a fit about people saying LISP instead of lisp or Lisp I would assume they were probably retarded.
Ironically, I probably know perl better than you do. Have you ever written any XS code?
>Thanks for making my weekend, troll.
Again with the personal attacks. Honestly, looking back at this thread you stand out to me as more of a troll. Just as you did in that thread where pg called you out on it.
So the only way you can answer accusations of being a troll and just doing (personal) attacks, insults and lies -- is more insults and you have no serious arguments to point at.
Let's be honest, Python and Ruby have eaten Perl's lunch. All it's got left to argue for it is CPAN. The first startup I worked for, in 1999, was built entirely on Perl. At the time it was a good choice. It isn't now.
In fact Ruby is completely unknown out of the trendy web startup set. I routinely have to explain it to people I meet.
Python is huge though. Most people know it, many like it. Though I find far fewer people love python than perl5 or Ruby.
But perl is still there. It's still my tool of choice for most scripting, and for some fundamentally good reasons that are unlikely to change in the near future. Perl scripts fit more naturally into single files. They deal better with the enclosing unix environment (i.e. they expose things like signals instead of trying to abstract them). Operations like pack/unpack and I/O piping work in fewer tokens and more clearly than in other environments.
It's just a great language. It makes me sad that everyone wants to flame about it.
Any new development, really. Don't get me wrong. I think Perl was a brilliant piece of language engineering in its day and its influence on subsequent "scripting" languages is unmistakable. But why would anyone without significant prior investment in the language choose it for new work now? It's just too cryptic and idiosyncratic compared to the obvious alternatives.
I just want to note that I would answer, if the question would seem in any way sincere. But I don't think I could say anything that would bring you to consider that other people might have other opinions, and that they're not simply invalid because you don't share them.
You understand that besides "opinions" and "sharing them" there is also an underlying objective reality right? At least in an engineering practice, like computing.
One doesn't have to consider "other opinions" or deem them "valid", if one knows them to be wrong. And in our profession we have lots of ways of knowing wrong from right.
Signs of what exactly? That people like to argue about languages? Or are you saying that choice of language / stack should be dictated by popular trends?
He's saying "The lady doth protest too much, methinks". You don't have this problem with Python, Ruby, C++ or even C. I certainly don't see a "C isn't dead! Really!" post every other week.
Oh please. The "is dead" meme is specific to Perl, but it's just a meme. There are plenty of equally dumb memes for Java, Lisp, and all the languages you just mentioned.
Please don't make the mistake of believing a meme.
Most Perl developers are grown-ups who are
a) too busy solving problems and
b) mature enough
to not go and troll every post about a language they don't like.
On the other hand, Perl has attracted a handful of recurring names of amazingly dedicated detractors who seemingly have nothing better to do.
These "Perl is dead" posts seems to come from trolls from certain other language communities. And in many cases, it is the same persons writing them...
Disregard him. He sucks candy.
EDIT: The downvotes are acting a ( ) for all the candy suckers. Checkout their useless profiles, and memorize their silly nick's.
ha ha !