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To duck out of the new ToS, just write this email to legal@23andme.com--

To Whom It May Concern:

My name is [name], and my 23andMe account is under the email [email]. I am writing to declare that I do not agree to the new terms of service at https://www.23andme.com/legal/terms-of-service/.


> If you do not notify us within 30 days, you will be deemed to have agreed to the new terms.

WTF. This is outrageous. And I had find that email in my spam after I read this comment. Hope this POS company goes down in flames after this.


Lol that surely can't be enforceable. Imagine "you agree to give us your kidney if you don't opt out within 30 days" sitting in your spam folder. How is this different?


The last time I went rooting around in my SPAM folder, I came back a different person. I am forever changed by what I saw in there. I consider email totally broken in today's environment, but without a SPAM folder it would be closer to totally useless.

With the benefit of hindsight, the invention of SPAM should have told us all we needed to know about the future of the internet. A small percentage of users will do their damnedest to ruin it for everyone else. It's a sign that people cannot be trusted to not use the tech for evil. I'm sure it foretold the corruption of social media as well. It is all SPAM's fault!


Write back "you agree to pay me $10M in compensation unless you reply in 30 days" ...


*auto-replies are not accepted as a valid response


But they hold your DNA hostage. Don't you want this company to exist on so nobody gets hurt. Oh, they peaked and leaked that's why the users get TOSsed. Carry on, Sir, baldly into a classy action lawsuit against a bankrupt company were some zeroday employee will get the biggest payout by insurance ever.


Too bad to fail ?


you can actually ask them to destroy your samples and any associated data.


And to whomever they've already likely sold it to, or in the case of gov'ts and police, given it to?


yes that ship has sailed but my comment is based on assumption that since they are going for this type of carte-blanch tos update they will be much more likely to sell to anybody going fwd (or stolen). the govt and police one is tricky because that will never go away in this digital age. that is essentially permanent record now.


I'm just surprised they aren't making you send a physical letter via USPS.

Some companies require that. Here is PayPal's process for example: https://www.paypal.com/us/legalhub/useragreement-full#table-...


They aren't the government, silly billy. Just because it's written down doesn't mean that it has value, it's just an (effectively unfortunate) deterrent, since oftentimes a court has to decide that it's illegal.

Hopefully our court system will get some more teeth vs other corporations soon.


I wonder what would happen if someone used one of the public email dumps and automated a mass opt-out of every email ever spotted in the wild.


23andMe's ToS change right now seems in poor taste at best, and I think they need to get smacked for that, by a judge and/or the public.

But I don't see how drunken anarchist tactics help, and that noise seems like it would be a counterproductive diversion.


wow, that's probably one of the most brilliant altruistic ideas I've read since buying other people's medical debt.

this is probably why the unsubscribe links require some interactive confirmation so that simply loading the page doesn't actually unsubscribe.

if this was doable, i'd put them above Troy Hunt in contributions to humankind ;-)


Some email providers navigate to every URL you receive to check them for phishing and malware. That doesn't play well with one-click unsubscribe links.


sounds like the email providers are in the wrong here. quit reading my mail.


My unsubscribe likes require a POST request, and have a form on the landing page, but specify the post requirements in the email header.


Email is arbitrationoptout@23andme.com


The email I got from 23andMe linked me to legal@23andme.com.


Yeah, but the actual terms say arbitrationoptout@23andme.com. I wouldn't put it past them to say "ah but you didn't email the right address".


I emailed this one and cc’d the legal@ address just to be sure.


Ah, bad news, you cc'd legal@, which technically isn't directly emailing legal@. We have denied your claim and you will be shot from a rocket directly into the sun next Wednesday.


Wow that is super hidden! They have a fake ToS to try to stop you from seeing the real one.


Deeper in it has the other one.

I also set my future status to auto opt-out.

“I opt out of the updated terms and will stick to the current in place ones indefinitely, including any future changes. I declare myself immune from having to do anything like this again in the future and set my status to auto-opt-out.”


Is this legally binding? I'm extremely skeptical any time phrases like "immune" and "automatically" start making their way into legalese as it's usually something like those Facebook "don't use my photos" things your aunt reposts every few months.


Give them a 30 day notice that it is binding unless they object?


They have lawyers on staff, it doesn't matter if it is legally binding because they will ignore it and force you to spend thousands of dollars trying to enforce it (in the unlikely case it mattered).


send it to both!


legal@23andme.com rejects my email with the message "Account disabled". So yeah, definitely cc the other address.


I wonder if they can use things like opt out data to find a way screen for genetic markers of "troublemakers" or similar.

DNA driven targeted advertising that finds only the most docile consumers.


They can't tell you your eye color from their DNA data with any degree of confidence, and you seriously expect them to be able to find a marker of something as vague as "troublemakers" ?!


https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/19619260/ """Nevertheless, it has been estimated that 74% of the variance in human eye colour can be explained by one interval on chromosome 15 that contains the OCA2 gene"""

That's about blue/brown, and realistically, there are a bunch of other genes which also have effects, as "eye color" is really a collection of phenotypes, not just a single one.


...And yet phrenology was a thing.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Phrenology

Never underestimate the willingness to engage in the days new "not-yet-clearly-identified-as-quackery-pseudo science" when there is a buck to be made.


maybe not but you can be assured they'll share whatever information they can predict with some degree of confidence with their 'partners'. Imaging FB getting a hold of you dna data (hashed up but still) and pairing it with eyeballs and other info from their AR/VR headsets.


ADHD has genetic markers for example


>> I wonder if


I am logging to my 23andme account to confirm my info and name registered there.

I forgot my password and did a password reset. They have password requirement of 12 characters minimum. A bunch of security theater just to get hacked anyways


So as soon as a company gets hacked once, all of their security measures get recategorized as security theater?


> So as soon as a company gets hacked once, all of their security measures get recategorized as security theater?

Failing to secure user data and then overcompensate on user side is a security theatre. It's like having complicated lock on a cardboard box.


You are failing to understand my point. Companies get hacked all the time, no matter how competent their security practices.

One hack does not imply cardboard box. A history of hacks or bad security practices does, and it’s not clear yet that applies to 23andMe.


The requirement wasn't previously that long. Also, following the hack, they're requiring everyone to reset their passwords.


You have to specifically opt out of the arbitration clause and class action waiver.


fwiw the correct email for this is arbitrationoptout@23andme.com


I don't give Facebook permission to use my pictures, my information or my publications, both of the past and the future, mine or those where I show up. By this statement, I give my notice to Facebook it is strictly forbidden to disclose, copy, distribute, give, sell my information, photos or take any other action against me on the basis of this profile and/or its contents. The content of this profile is private and confidential information. The violation of privacy can be punished by law (UCC 1-308-1 1 308-103 and the Rome statute). Note: Facebook is now a public entity. All members must post a note like this. If you prefer, you can copy and paste this version. If you do not publish a statement at least once, you have given the tacit agreement allowing the use of your photos, as well as the information contained in the updates of the state of the profile. Do not share. You have to copy.


The difference here being that 23 and me has communicated a specific opt-out process. This isn’t some sovereign citizen nonsense the person you’re replying to came up with on their own. It’s the official method you’re suppose to use.


Those notices are bullshit, but https://www.23andme.com/legal/terms-of-service/#dispute-reso... says emailing an opt-out is correct in this case.

> 30 Day Right to Opt-Out. You have the right to opt-out and not be bound by the arbitration and class action waiver provisions set forth above by sending written notice of your decision to opt-out by emailing us at arbitrationoptout@23andme.com. The notice must be sent within thirty (30) days of your first use of the Service, or the effective date of the first set of Terms containing an Arbitration and Class Action and Class Arbitration Waiver section otherwise you shall be bound to arbitrate disputes in accordance with the terms of those sections. If you opt out of these arbitration provisions, we also will not be bound by them.


Yeah, it's not immediately obvious how to play, but I thought with some clicking around folks would figure it out.


Hah, thanks! What was your heuristic?


I find that extremely hard to believe....

Attachments? Google Drive? And why not lazy-load long emails?


I posted a new We the People petition about this issue: https://petitions.whitehouse.gov/petition/close-guantanamo-b... .


The Strokes - Alone, Together


Here, "married" is a past participle, and the headline is in the passive voice. Headlines from Google News analogous to this post's title:

-Sleep apnea linked to cancer in latest studies -Falcon 9 countdown aborted in last second before launch -Apple, Samsung CEOs set for court talks


Yes, I know. I was only correcting the ridiculous tangent, not referring to the actual headline.



Excellent stuff :-) I'd finally got my head politically around paying the licence fee and then they take it a step too far.. ;-)


"Discretely?" Really?


Yep, each distinct photo is independently sent.


slipped through the proof readers i supposed..


Yeah, yeah, and degrees are wrong for expressing angles, and steering wheels are wrong for driving cars.

Incidentally, there's already a symbol for \tau: 2\pi. Same number of syllables and characters as 14, so what's the problem?


Why tau, BTW? Why not winnie, after the Wonder Years character portrayed by the eminent mathematician Danica McKellar?


Your question is answered in the article...


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