Not from any specific person, but the idea that you have to step outside your comfort zone and do X and Y even though it doesn't come naturally to you.
Every time I did that things got messed up and I ended up worse than I was before.
If you're outside your comfort zone, you will act in non-authentic ways, and when you're not being authentic, you can't be the best possible you.
Examples of stepping outside comfort zone:
* Wear a suite and act professional for a job interview
* Say hi to random strangers so you can make friends (even though you're introverted and doing this makes you look like a fool)
* Go to social events where you don't know anyone there.
EDIT: thanks for the down votes. Now let me explain why this is bad advice:
- Act not like yourself for a job interview:
This is bad because instead of showing them your strong points, you'll be busy trying to hide your weak points and seem like a "good, obedient" employee. Eventually you fail at both: your bad points will still show, while your good points won't get a chance.
- Begging friendship from random strangers:
Makes you look like a fool, insecure person that nobody wants to be friends with.
EDIT2: I'm not talking about little steps. Venturing into new areas is fun. Throwing yourself into the middle of an extremely uncomfortable situation is completely different.
One of the reasons I found "step outside your comfort zone" to be bad advice is that they never tell you how far to go and when you should stop. It seems consequential that you never know when you have gone too far, because you're outside the zone where you can use your intuition sensibly. If you were able to tell that you've gone too far, then by definition you're still inside your comfort zone.
If something only makes you a little bit uncomfortable, it will feel like it's still inside your comfort zone, and if you're trying to follow the "step outside your comfort zone" advice, you'll be tempted to go even further.
As an opposing viewpoint, every major advance in my life has come from stepping outside of my comfort zone and tackling something in which I had no idea what I was doing.
-public speaking
-asking women out
-learning to dance
-socializing/making friends
-lifting weights
-starting a business
-doing sales work
-learning to program
edit: The vast majority of these made me very uncomfortable and awkard, not "a little".
To piggyback off your example to make a point,
1) public speaking: preach to the choir or speak your mind?
2) picking up women: be a nice guy or be assertive about your needs?
3) socializing/making friends: manipulate to get ahead or be loyal and get snubbed?
4) lifting weights: long day at work, go to the gym anyways?
5) starting a business: when to quit your job or when to admit that your project is a dead-horse
6) doing sales work: where is the fine-line between lying and marketing?
7) learning to program: programming before hoes or the other way around? (sadly I took up this ill-advised vocation at an age before I realized the importance of women).
Pushing ourselves beyond the comfort zone most likely reveal ugly truth about ourselves that our ego have been trying to protect ourselves from. I found that what I thought were world's injustices directed at me were really my own insecurities and sheer laziness; or my notion that I'm a nice and considerate person is really sour grapes that I didn't have X; and in the position of getting X, I could be as selfish and manipulative as the next guy who has X, whom I previously vilified. Stepping out of comfort zone reveals who we really are and sometimes the truth is ugly.
I see a lot of straw men in your examples. They are almost all cases of how to handle the success you receive from leaving your comfort zone.
In all of these things, you strike a balance and find what is moral or healthy--that is part of the journey. I wouldn't want to use possible straw-men morality as an excuse for continued ineptness. Like white hat security pros, you can know how to do something but choose not to do it.
mind telling more about your experience on this?
how far would you say "getting out of your comfort zone" did you reach?
how did programming affected your life (seems like you meant you spent too much time doing so before getting to that... how was it?)
Personally after college, I had four goals: 1) be able to bench-press 200lb, 2) play guitar in a band/be able to improvise, solo, play at performance tempo etc., 3) be able to play pick-up basketball and win more games for my team than lose, 4) to approach women and other people in bar and other urban scenario's and f-close or the social equivalent.
No, I haven't completely achieved all of my goals although I have gone very far in all of them. But I'm not as anxious about them nor about admitting on my shortcomings on my goals in public; like in programming, at a point you develop a sense of confidence that even on a long programming project, it's only a matter a time that you will finish it. It's just a sequence of iterations of coding & debugging.
How did programming affect my life? It made me a nerd with inferiority-superiority complex who on one hand views average human beings as automatons who let their sense of social insecurity get in their way; and who on the other hand is insecure himself, requires constant social re-assurances, stroking of the ego and (most importantly) sexual gratification. And for that, I'm eternally indebted to programming.
I couldn't agree more with the sentiment that - often - stepping outside your comfort zone can lead to good things. However there has to be some reason you want to do it, despite it making you uncomfortable. Otherwise the fact that you're not being yourself will overshadow whatever it is you're trying to achieve.
I made myself go back to university when my first experience was not successful, I'm now on track for a great degree. I am in the process of chasing a few business opportunities, and I'm putting myself in the position of a marketing man. This has already lead to some promising leads. I also tried to be a bit more open minded and non-judgemental, and socialise in ways I didn't previously, and I made some great friends as a result.
Your life is in many ways, very much in your own hands.
You bifurcate "I" and "me" implying the former can reliably create such a state in the latter; if this is the case, then what's actually at work in forming your "me"?
I used two different terms to aid the reader, but I and me are just pointers to self and like a ruby class running metaprogramming on self, one can rewrite oneself. The new code still comes from the self, though.
not felicitous to say the least. you're ignoring my point that your self is formed by something which also has a form that you're ignoring since you're so in love with its ability to change.
Of course you have to have some reason to go outside your comfort zone. If anyone has ever suggested otherwise, they have misunderstood the concept completely. The point is to grow as a person and achieve proficiency in an area you want, but which doesn't come naturally to you.
You're not supposed to be awkward and uncomfortable just for the hell of it.
If you're trolling this post with spectacularly bad advice about bad advice, well done. If you truly believe that, you have a very cynical worldview.
I am quite introverted but whenever I force myself to go to a social event where I don't know anyone and make friends, I always have a great time and meet awesome people, and it invariably goes better than I thought it would. If you just assume the people there WANT to be your friend, you don't look needy and your extroverted side comes out, and you can still be yourself.
As I've heard it defined, extroverts gain energy from social interactions, introverts are fatigued by them. If, like me, after a few hours of small talk you feel exhausted and want to sit in front of a screen alone, you're probably an introvert. I have some extroverted friends who will not go to the grocery store unless someone goes with them to keep them company. I prefer taking walks alone, and so on.
> I have some extroverted friends who will not go to the grocery store unless someone goes with them
We did a teamwork exercise where they split the E's and I's. To both groups, they said that you have the next day off - tell us what you're going to do. The E's were going nuts with chartering a plane to Vegas, big party while all of the I's were going to do something alone, maybe even just catch up on laundry. The difference was shocking.
In another exercise, they had an E monitor a team of us I's on a logic puzzle. As the E later described, he was just basically watching us I's sit there and not say anything and then a few minutes later - we started talking. We won but the non-talking communication really weirded him out.
No, it doesn't. Introverts are perfectly capable of overcoming their personality tendencies. Introversion or extraversion refer to your natural inclination, but it determines nothing.
"Introverts are perfectly capable of overcoming their personality tendencies."
The first thing you're assuming is that introverts either want or need to overcome their introversion. There isn't anything wrong with being an introvert. There is something wrong with being an extreme introvert.
The first thing you're assuming is that introverts either want or need to overcome their introversion
I certainly did not mean to say that. I don't believe it. What I said was that introverts are capable of overcoming their tendencies. They're tendencies, not fate.
The commenter a few levels above said they had a great time at parties; the comment I responded to said that sounded like a shy extrovert. Not so, say I: introverts can have fun at parties too, even ones where they don't know anybody.
No value judgement intended in any direction. I'm a strong introvert who does well at parties because I need to for my work; but it's difficult and I don't have fun.
Introverts can increase their tolerance to being social in much the same way you can increase your physical stamina. However, as an introvert, I don't think I could ever train myself to recharge from social situations the way extroverts do.
> What I said was that introverts are capable of overcoming their tendencies
I think the person above was pointing out that by saying that introverts need to "overcome" their tendencies, you are effectively saying that introverts have an issue that needs to be overcome.
I'm fairly introverted myself so I can relate to the notion of just spending time by myself and feeling quite happy about it. However, you miss out on so many opportunities.
I just moved overseas to a new university and I've been forcing myself to go to many, many talks and chat with the people there. Some huge proportion of time I walk away with some useful bit of information "You have to read the new paper by x! It covers exactly what you're looking for." or "Y just got a grant and is looking for PhD students in your area."
Every connection you make adds potential access to another life times experience and knowledge.
[I'm vaguely expecting you to weasle word "Ah, but not doing that is being an /extreme/ introvert."]
I think the grandparent's point is that you shouldn't force yourself to be an extravert no matter what extraverts tell you. Yeah, it's good to engage your extraverted side, but there's a big difference between that and actually becoming an extravert.
> If you just assume the people there WANT to be your friend, you don't look needy and your extroverted side comes out, and you can still be yourself.
Sadly, I believe most introverts are pretty selfish - worrying what other people think of them when, in reality, most everyone is not thinking of them - and may not even notice them.
Another thing about Introverts - with most extroverts, it is fairly easy to figure out who a person is or at least who they primarily represent themselves as. With an introvert, a stranger is going to have to invest a lot more in getting to know who an introvert is - that's exhausting to some people - why expend energy figuring out the quiet ones when you can have fun talking to the loud ones.
>>I believe most introverts are pretty selfish - worrying what other people think of them
WTF? :-)
Did that come out wrong? Are you a non-native English speaker and don't know the word "selfish"?
That kind of worrying is normal insecurity. If you up the ante with e.g. unusual clothes, non-introvert people wills start worrying like that too. Introverts just start doing it at a lower threshold.
The idea behind stepping outside of your comfort zone is that you keep doing it until it becomes your new comfort zone. If you're not ready to invest the effort needed to see it through, you shouldn't do it.
Every time I've tried stepping out of my comfort zone "just for the hell of it", it usually ends up being pointless at best and embarrassing at worst. I'm not changed at all, I don't really accomplish anything besides making myself feel uncomfortable, and nothing much comes of it.
But the really big, life-changing events in my life have all come from stepping outside my comfort zone, and staying outside my comfort zone until I became comfortable. Switching school districts for high school. Going away for college. Posting things on the Internet. Rocking the job interview process. Founding a company, and sticking with it until everyone except me had given up. Moving to Silicon Valley.
I feel like this is often misunderstood, that a lot of people step outside their comfort zone simply because that's what they're told to do, and don't follow through with it enough to reap the rewards.
"The idea behind stepping outside of your comfort zone is that you keep doing it until it becomes your new comfort zone."
No it isn't. The point of stepping outside your comfort zone is to see if it really does belong outside your comfort zone. Stepping outside your comfort zone and demanding that that be the new way, results be damned, is just as foolish as never stepping outside your comfort zone. Not everything outside your comfort zone is good and usually the only way to determine what is and isn't good is to jump in and try it out.
That's fair too. The point is that you do have to stick with it long enough that you can actually judge the results. If you've been outside your comfort zone for a long time and it's still not comfortable, maybe it's time to try stepping in a different direction. But if you just went to a meetup once and you felt terribly socially awkward and you never went back, how do you know whether it's because first meetings are always awkwards vs. you just don't click with those people?
> The idea behind stepping outside of your comfort zone is that you keep doing it until it becomes your new comfort zone.
That's kinda worse. The only good way to venture into new areas, in my opinion, is to make little steps forward, to the extent that you're not standing still "as-is" but also while you're still in control of your emotions.
This will expand your comfort zone gradually until the thing that was originally very uncomfortable, is now only slightly uncomfortable.
But going completely outside your zone over and over again? No thanks. This might work for some people, specifically people with SP temperament (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Artisan_temperament) who tend to seek stimulation, but it's not a good advice for the general population.
I'm an INTP, not exactly an SP temperament. I have historically been very change-averse, almost Aspergian, enough that I almost didn't want to go to college because I couldn't imagine living anywhere but my parents' house. I moved across the country for a new job in a challenging field, and knew virtually nobody there. That isn't exactly baby steps.
It worked because I pretty much made it the focus of my life to adjust to my new situation. Yes, it was scary. It was also a huge opportunity, and I wasn't going to pass it up.
If the idea of a big change completely fills you with dread, you shouldn't do it. That's my point - you should either go all-in or not-at-all-in. But if it's only a little scary, and you think you can do it, my experience has been that it's almost always better to do it and keep at it until it's no longer scary.
1. Take "temperament theory" with a grain of salt. It's somewhat in vogue right now with a lot of psychologists, but there are also plenty of reasons to think that it's conflating two separate issues (temperament and typology) and is an oversimplification.
2. The only way to develop your personality is to step outside your comfort zone. Your type only determines where that comfort zone is, not whether you can or should do it often. For SP (really more ESP, but whatever) types, doing crazy things physically is their comfort zone. They need to learn to get in touch with their more subdued side.
I'm not aware of any personality theory that psychologists agree on, each school has its own theories. I find the temperaments derived from MBTI to be very convincing.
Wearing a suit != "[seeming] like a 'good, obedient' employee." I have always really appreciated it when job candidates dress up for their interviews. It makes it seem like they're saying to me 'I know this isn't your dress code, but I want to put my best foot forward and make sure you know I take this interaction seriously.'
Say hi to random strangers so you can make friends (even though you're introverted and doing this makes you look like a fool)
I wouldn't be with my girlfriend of a year and a half if I hadn't stuck my neck out and gotten outside my comfort zone when I was introduced to her. It doesn't make you look like a fool; it provides you with an aura of confidence.
Go to social events where you don't know anyone there.
As a corollary, I imagine you'd also suggest never moving to a new city where you don't know anyone, right?
I have heard that certain mid-size to large technology companies in Silicon Valley actually ding people on "culture fit" if they wear a suit to the interview. This was actually one of those pieces of advice my mom gave me that turned out to be bad advice.
Instead, I'd suggest "Know the culture that you're entering, respect it, and do your best to adhere to it."
When I interviewed for my current job, it was at a company where I knew a lot of people and was pretty familiar with th culture. I knew a jacket and tie would be overkill but it seemed respectful overkill. A suit would have been way overboard though I'd be surprised had anyone really dinged me for it. There is a matter of understanding norms but, usually at least, a degree of overdressing for interviews seems a reasonable approach.
> As a corollary, I imagine you'd also suggest never moving to a new city where you don't know anyone, right?
I don't see that as a corollary (a city is not a social event). But for me personally, that's right, I wouldn't do that unless I had an extroverted friend or family moving with me, or I had something specific to do (job, study, etc). Although I wouldn't necessarily suggest that to other people; this is just me, and each to his own.
I think you missed the point of this advice. Stepping out of your comfort zone is designed to allow you to grow as a person, not make you be something you are not.
If you are so introverted that you can't possibly go to an event without making a complete fool out of yourself (a real fool, not just what you think is foolish) you've got a serious issue that is going to put you at a disadvantage in many areas of your life.
There's a huge gap between having faults, recognizing them, accepting them and overcoming them when you choose to and being perfect in every way.
I don't see how completely ignoring your weak points and pretending they aren't relevant to you makes you a better person, however.
Not from any specific person, but the idea that you have to step outside your comfort zone and do X and Y even though it doesn't come naturally to you.
I've been reading some of the arguments and counterarguments. It seems like a lot of assumptions are being made on both sides. I raised two special needs kids and found that you can help someone grow into doing things they could not before without forcing them to step outside their comfort zone. I now have a job and I find that similar principles work with "normal" adults who need to do something new and aren't sure what they are supposed to be doing.
At home with my oldest son, I had him watch me cook while I explained. Later, he began assisting -- getting out ingredients I needed, stirring things, etc. but only doing what he felt comfortable with. He gradually took over more parts of it as he became comfortable. He now does most of the cooking. At work, I have volunteered to walk someone to where they need to go for a special procedure and show them whom they needed to speak with. One young woman was very shy, so I did intros and did the initial talking until she was more comfortable with this new person. Just walking a new person through the procedure the first time really took the pressure off. It's a big building and everything looks alike and it's easy to get lost, plus my job has a lot of time pressure which adds to the psychological stress because getting lost and wandering around costs you time.
If you don't have someone that can help walk you through something (or some other means to ramp up comfortably), it may be best to take some personal risks. But it is absolutely possible to grow as a person without doing stuff that makes you feel all stressed primarily because it is extremely unfamiliar. Some things may require taking a leap of faith but many things that are routinely handled that way do not inherently require that approach. (I could argue that Y-combinator does something similar to what I am suggesting here: They take you under their wing, introduce you to a lot of folks who already have experience founding a company, help you work out the kinks, etc. so you don't have to simply sink or swim/figure it out all on your own/grow from being burned so much.)
Say hi to random strangers so you can make friends (even though you're introverted and doing this makes you look like a fool)
Genuinely curious: are you saying this as a matter or philosophy or did you try this and come out of it feeling foolish and insecure? Or may be both?
I won't down vote you because I think I can relate to both sides of this. There are things I was never into that I got into after a lot of struggles and looking foolish. And there are things that I was never into that I could never feel comfortable with no matter how much I tried.
In either case, until I got out of my comfort zone I could never know what I can and cannot eventually be.
Just to add to this, it's good to do things outside of your comfort zone in low pressure/stress situations where the consequences of failure are minor.
It's not a good idea to pick up skydiving when you're in a burning plane and it's the only option.
What I learned is that, if you're an educated individual living in a first world country, the consequences of failure are _almost always_ minor. Act accordingly.
Public speaking is way outside my comfort zone. I have absolutely dreaded it ever since I had to do presentations in school. At the same time, it's really important to me to able to do it, so I accept every opportunity for public speaking that I can.
After several experiences delivering talks or sitting on panel discussions, I've gotten a lot more comfortable - and progressively better (I truly feel sorry for the people who had to sit through my first few times).
I'm still not great at it, but the thought of speaking no longer grips me with panic. The last couple of times I even found myself enjoying it - and feeling a positive response from my audience.
> After 15 years of practice, and about 1000 live shows, I was finally a very good singer, at least by my own standards. (You can judge for yourself at sivers.org/music. Old stuff at the bottom. New stuff at the top.)
> Someone who heard me for the first time then said, “Singing is a gift you're either born with or you're not. You're lucky. You were born with it!”
As a musician doing non-mainstream music, I hear this a lot too. People will say something like, "just write somethin catchy and mainstream and you will make a million dollars!". What they don't understand is that you cannot force yourself to create something that is not in your head, no matter how "simple" it seems.
I agree with the advice that stepping out of your comfort zone is necessary for personal development. But I also agree that rest (getting back into the comfort zone) is absolutely necessary. Some of my best life experiences were going out of my comfort zone for an hour or so then returning more enlightened. Some of my worst were going out of it for an entire day or week without any time to rest and reflect.
That being said, your points are valid depending on what you are used to. The social event where you know no one is a natural step after you learn to mingle with strangers alongside friends; if you haven't done that at least, the event will probably suck.
It seems like you didn't quite apply the idea of "step outside of your comfort zone" correctly. It's about little steps, and repeated trying of things until you get it right. It means stop being so worried about what other people think and start being the person you want to be, not someone who's fearful of trying and doing new things. How do you think you learned most of your social behavior up to this point?
I think the key point here is not about never expanding your comfort zone - it's about not doing it just because someone else advises it.
There's a world of difference between choosing to step outside your limits because you've identified something that you aspire to, and doing so because someone else thinks they know what's good for you.
good advice i actually got from a professor (via c.s. peirce): do nothing to stand in the way of enquiry. this forces you to confront the inadequacy of your knowledge (which you'll realize is intensely personal) and how much help you need.
i should also mention that peirce died a penniless drunk, after leading a tumultuous (huge understatement) life, including a lecturing at harvard.
it's interesting and a little sobering to see how fucked up the lives of many dedicated scholars end up being.
Every time I did that things got messed up and I ended up worse than I was before.
If you're outside your comfort zone, you will act in non-authentic ways, and when you're not being authentic, you can't be the best possible you.
Examples of stepping outside comfort zone:
* Wear a suite and act professional for a job interview
* Say hi to random strangers so you can make friends (even though you're introverted and doing this makes you look like a fool)
* Go to social events where you don't know anyone there.
EDIT: thanks for the down votes. Now let me explain why this is bad advice:
- Act not like yourself for a job interview:
This is bad because instead of showing them your strong points, you'll be busy trying to hide your weak points and seem like a "good, obedient" employee. Eventually you fail at both: your bad points will still show, while your good points won't get a chance.
- Begging friendship from random strangers:
Makes you look like a fool, insecure person that nobody wants to be friends with.
EDIT2: I'm not talking about little steps. Venturing into new areas is fun. Throwing yourself into the middle of an extremely uncomfortable situation is completely different.
One of the reasons I found "step outside your comfort zone" to be bad advice is that they never tell you how far to go and when you should stop. It seems consequential that you never know when you have gone too far, because you're outside the zone where you can use your intuition sensibly. If you were able to tell that you've gone too far, then by definition you're still inside your comfort zone.
If something only makes you a little bit uncomfortable, it will feel like it's still inside your comfort zone, and if you're trying to follow the "step outside your comfort zone" advice, you'll be tempted to go even further.