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Bonds are not just an accounting mechanism; bonds are an alternative to stocks for investment. Even government bonds create value---if not funding something tangible (such as infrastructure), just the existence of a stable and functioning legal system is hugely valuable.

Cash is more than an accounting system too, especially since the end of the gold standard. There isn't a fixed supply of dollars that businesses just move around.

Also, with regards to both cash and precious metals: their value is as media for economic transactions; their value increases each time they change hands. Would you want to barter to buy shares of a company? Trade sheep to invest in Microsoft?



I didn’t say bonds and cash can’t be investments, just that they don’t generate new goods and services. Cash and cash equivalents only generate value through passage of time. There isn’t any creativity involved. Creativity is long term more valuable than just the time value of money.


That same reductionist argument can also be applied to stocks. Share ownership doesn't generate value in and of itself either.

You're saying that businesses generate value. No disagreement from me there.

But then you're saying that stocks are the only way to share the value that businesses create. That's where you lose me. Selling shares is not the only way for a company to raise funds to operate. Companies can also sell bonds or take out loans (i.e. cash). Your argument that stocks are inherently more valuable would only make sense if stocks were the only way to invest in a company.


Without share ownership, there is no business... you can have a business without loans. business generates value. Shares assign ownership. Loans just price risk of capital. Pricing the risk is also a business.


Bonds are very similar to equity. I've just recently realized this.

Companies get funding from two sources, equity and debt. The sum of those are equal to assets in the balance sheet. Both represent different forms of ownership of the company. Equity holders decide how the company is managed, debt holders have priority in income distribution and in liquidation.


I think that you and I have fundamentally different views on what it means for a company to sell shares.


Sorry to beat a dead horse, but...

Someone already owns a company before company sells (issues / dilutes) shares. That ownership is just shares. No shares need to ever be sold for them to exist. Founders create shares out of nothing when they create a business.


With that line of reasoning you're countering your original point.

If companies don't sell shares, then there's no stock market. If there's no stock market, then there's no rate of return for stocks. If there's no rate of return for stocks, then stocks aren't an inherently superior investment to bonds, cash, or goods.

If someone founds a company that's 100% owned by that one person, then you (as an outside investor) aren't partaking in any of the value that that business creates. Let's say you want part of the ownership of that company. Companies don't just give out shares of ownership because they feel like it. Companies give out shares because they need liquidity. They can exchange fractional ownership for liquidity directly (e.g. selling shares) or indirectly (e.g. giving employees stock options instead of salary). However, shares are not the only way for companies to gain liquidity.

Ownership that is not traded has no value to investors. Ownership that is traded is traded for a reason, and must be compared to alternatives. Those alternatives are not inherently less valuable than shares.


You don’t need a stock market for equity to appreciate. A private business that delivers value makes owning a piece of the business valuable regardless of whether the shares are publicly traded


> just that they don’t generate new goods and services.

The highway down the street from me was funded using Bonds. I even own a few Hospital bonds, which were used to construct hospitals.




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