I use an enjoy PHP. I assume that you don't use PHP because if you did, you wouldn't be arguing over such trivial things. For example, the inconsistency of namespace/class/member access looks terrible in theory but in practice it hardly makes any difference. It's not like you get confused as to which one to use and having them look different is somewhat helpful in understanding what the code actually says.
I used to think the backslash was the worse possible thing that could ever been done to PHP but after using it extensively for a while, eh, it's not so bad. At this point, I'd gladly change a whole bunch of other stuff before I'd change that.
> Just saying where other people are coming from.
Hey, I know where other people are coming from. I think I might be more qualified to bitch about the language than those who don't use it day to day.
I use it every day at work, and have been a PHP programmer for years -- however, I don't suffer from the Stockholm syndrome that requires you perform the mental gymnastics involved in rationalizing away sheer volume of fail.
We both work daily with a horrible language, but at least one of us realizes it.
I don't think we're having the discussion you think we're having; I'm well aware of how "horrible" PHP is. But I program in plenty of languages and there is very little difference in code size, code organization, or pain between my code across those languages. I could translate my current PHP project in Python and the differences wouldn't be that great.
I imagine you haven't experience any real pain: programming large projects in VBScript, C++, or doing any work in COBOL. The minor irritations of PHP is just that.
I suspect your problem isn't so much PHP but the code that you have to work with written in PHP. Most PHP code is embarrassingly bad. I'm lucky that, for the most part, I don't have to deal with a lot of terrible PHP code. I bend PHP to my will, not the other way around. A lot of people fault the language design for the insane way people use it -- it doesn't have to be that way.
I indict the language designers for making it easy to write bad code. I agree it doesn't have to be that way, people can write good(-ish) code in PHP. It's just that the language team seems to go out of their way to make a language that doesn't appeal to a programmer's sense of symmetry, elegance, consistency, flow, and ease.
All of these things are easily worked around. As a sum though, they contribute to the overwhelming sense that the tool is created by -- and by extension, for -- dumbasses :)
Thankfully, the amount of PHP I have to maintain is decreasing and the time I spend on my own projects is increasing, which is when I get to use better languages.
In previous lives I have had to maintain/develop C++ as well, and I understand that it's painful. All pain is relative, I suppose. I'm sure a woman who has given birth to quadruplets would scoff at this notion of pain.
I use an enjoy PHP. I assume that you don't use PHP because if you did, you wouldn't be arguing over such trivial things. For example, the inconsistency of namespace/class/member access looks terrible in theory but in practice it hardly makes any difference. It's not like you get confused as to which one to use and having them look different is somewhat helpful in understanding what the code actually says.
I used to think the backslash was the worse possible thing that could ever been done to PHP but after using it extensively for a while, eh, it's not so bad. At this point, I'd gladly change a whole bunch of other stuff before I'd change that.
> Just saying where other people are coming from.
Hey, I know where other people are coming from. I think I might be more qualified to bitch about the language than those who don't use it day to day.