There is no justice outside (or without) law.

I disagree. As long as I have a personal concept of 'good' and 'bad', and prefer it when 'good' things to happen to 'good' people (and vice versa) then I have a concept of justice.

Often, what is good for some is bad for others (and vice versa). Justice would be way too relative (subjective) outside law, so as to be devoid of any meaning, actually.

Laws are relative as well, they differ in every country. Why would justice only exist in another relative system? You know vigilante justice is a well accepted concept that exists outside of the law by definition.

> [laws] differ

So does the definition of justice.

> vigilante justice

Except 'vigilante justice' and 'justice' are concepts that have little to do with each other. You might as well be talking about the 'de facto law' (like for instance the "law" enforced by the local mafia) vs. the 'de jure law' here.

> Except 'vigilante justice' and 'justice' are concepts that have little to do with each other.

That depends on how well different people's definitions of justice line up. There are many things that vigilantes can enforce pretty well.

> You might as well be talking about the 'de facto law' (like for instance the "law" enforced by the local mafia) vs. the 'de jure law' here.

Sure, why not? Mafia law is often not justice, but I think it qualifies as law where sufficiently powerful. You seem to think this argument debunks itself?

Reputation and peer pressure are pretty effective at compelling people to act justly (according to the local consensus definition) even in the absence of a formal legal system.

If reputation and peer pressure scaled to group sizes bigger than Dunbar's number (i.e. about a hundred or so) then we probably wouldn't need laws at all.

I suppose you one might say that social expectations are just another kind of law, in which case, yeah it's hard to imagine any group of people without some kind of expectations of how each other will behave. That's kind of the basis of human relationships.

I can imagine a perfectly just society with no laws.

I, on the other hand, cannot. (I can imagine many strange things, but not this one.)

Consider:

* A society of one.

* A society of one family isolated in nature, where each member is allowed to express their peculiarities and eccentricities, but never do each other any harm - not because of established rules, but because they truly love and care of each other.

One person is not a society.

The second example is virtually unreal (and even expressions of 'love' and 'care' can be harmful).

"Virtually unreal"? It's how humans evolved for hundred thousands years.