I am beginning to think that a huge part of medicalizing psycological probelms is really about getting people to accept a life that has been imposed on them that leaves them profoundly unhappy, hopeless and unfulfilled.

A stark example: my employer has decided to outsource all of technology and as many other functions as possible to India. We have all been informed that most of us will be unemployed by the end of the year. They are also following up in all corporate communications about how "transitions can be hard" and "mental health is important" offering online counseling and the like.

I think this is partly their way of cleansing their own hands "we know some very bad outcomes for some people are going to result from this, but how can it be our fault when we offered them resources to help with their mental health?"

The other part is individualizing the problem: "yes losing your job can be a challenge but it's really about what's between your own two ears."

Finally, mental health is an industry, arguably one that is providing services principally to other businesses ("you can do what ever you want to your workforce and we will fix it in their heads").

By the way I remember some of those drug addiction studies that showed lab rats choosing heroin over food until they starve being criticized because the parameters of being a lab rat trapped in a glass box under harsh lights may have something to do with the rat's state of mind.

I'm guessing that management wasn't one of the functions selected for offshoring - funny how the Indians are always better at every function except that.

Yes one part is definitely pushing people past natural limits and then drugging them to try and extend their limits.

I think another is a privileged perspective - to a tenured university researcher with a low stress life, or a wealthy doctor, they may feel that "the program" has worked fine for them. So they can't imagine how the program has led another to a life of misery.

It's strange that management becomes even more crucial in order to handle and manage offshoring too...

I'll take a slightly different approach. Depression is solved/cured by appreciation. I say this as someone who has suffered from pretty debilitating depression as well, while by otherside measures being a successful person.

The working out, the meditation and all that shit is not meant for the health benefits. It's so that you'll appreciate that you're slightly healthier in time, or slightly more mindful, etc. Teaching appreciation of the things you have and have achieved.

There is a direct line from the explosion of modern depression to social media (particularly Instagram). Social media is entirely about envy of others, and as the saying goes "envy is the thief of joy".

The point of a happy, fulfilling, depression-less life is not to have everything, it's to have something. Particularly "somethings" that you've worked for.

That can work if the subject's expectations are too high.

I don't think it'd work or be appropriate if the depression comes from basic missing pieces in their life - a partner (or at least faith they'll find one one day), work they find fulfilling, their day-to-day interactions with others are tolerable etc.

I think depression is the mind and body's way of telling the subject " you have to go a different direction". This is consistent with it deenergizing and demotivating them and making it harder for them to prevail in their goals - this naturally arrests further progress in that failed direction, and sends them looking for answers on how to stop feeling depressed (which if our culture was good in this area, would send them off down different life paths rather than to drugs).

> I don't think it'd work or be appropriate if the depression comes from basic missing pieces in their life

I think it can. That was sort of my point. It’s not about having all of the things you (think that you) want. It’s about having the things you appreciate.

I just read about "MIRROR" for physical pain relief by neuroplasticity techniques: Mindful, Intention, Repetition, Relaxation, Optimism, and Resilience.

The book, The Brain's Way of Healing, suggests modest improvements in a (similar) framework result in more hope which turns into a virtous cycle. Sounds like an overlap with your comments on appreciation.

I don’t think you’re wrong but I also don’t think it’s hard to believe that different people have different depressions and for a lot of people it is a medical issue.

When docs are prescribing to patients, they are mentally traversing through a decision tree to prescribe the best that fits the conditions. If the problem still persists, they may ask_questions/test more to find more branches to traverse.

For individuals, it's like being a node, where you cannot see anything above. It feels that what works for you, should work for all.

> maybe the subject's life is shit?

> Once your life stops being shit, you stop feeling depressed.

You really should be more careful trying to shoehorn everyone with a medical condition into your shoes. You come off as terribly rude and narrow minded when you do so, which I am sure was not the intention. People who live perfectly good lives also suffer depression. People who have everything seemingly going for them suffer depression. And yes. The focus on brain chemistry is warranted, it’s based in scientific observation, discarding it just because your personal sorry doesn’t align is like discarding vaccines because “I never got vaccinated and didn’t die from covid” you are just one datapoint in the collection, and no matter what your experience is, you can’t blankly extrapolate to the entire population.

I think the focus on brain chemistry for depression is as silly as for any other emotional state. For instance, you don't need to know about the chemical makeup of "angry", just that you're angry, and then look at what caused it.

If a depressed person genuinely thinks their life is good and that they have everything going for them, this is often from lack of realisation or self deception.

To pick an easy example, someone who's got a successful well paid big city career being depressed, because internally they don't want that and just did it because others told them that's the path to happiness, and they've repressed their subconscious desire to say raise a family in the countryside instead.

> You really should be more careful trying to shoehorn everyone with a medical condition into your shoes.

You should really be more careful taking things that people say as a personal affect on you, or people like you. It is ok for people to talk about their personal feelings/beliefs/experiences without it being value judged by you (as rude or narrow minded).

Not every message is meant for you.

It's also ok for people to voice their personal feelings that someone else's personal feelings are narrow-minded. This appeal is self-defeating. (And maybe the original post would have not gotten such a response if it had stuck to their personal anecdote and not sweepingly generalised it)

The trouble with conversations about depression is that it's hard to come up with even simple agreements that everyone is happy about.

Having been on both sides of it, I have insight into it.

It's up to you if you want to defend that status quo of "cope with the life you've got - drugging yourself or paying expensive therapists if necessary to do so".

But it's important that others hear that there's another more effective way. That they can simply opt out of that tunnel vision, that they don't have to give in to the fear of disappointing others or "ruining the career" or just plain old fear of the unknown, and change their lives for the better.