> except Kotlin no new JVM language

Java's never going to be on the bleeding-edge of trendiness (thank goodness). But there have been fewer JVM-targeting alternative languages over the past decade, because Java itself started leaning in a functional direction. It became "good enough" to negate the purpose for most of them.

At any rate, counting compile targets for hobbyist toy languages is barely one step beyond measuring GitHub stars.

> I do not know what will be the most dominant language + bytecode in 25 years

In 25 years, I'll be long gone and you can have it. By then, the industry will be pushing to automate most programming jobs out of existence altogether, and you can be the old guard arguing against that.

> except Kotlin no new JVM language.

What about Clojure?

I 100% agree with you on Java. Some of these people who compare Java to Cobol have no idea. It’s hard for anyone to predict the future in tech but at this point Java is so widely used in the enterprise that it’s foolhardy to think that Java will disappear anytime soon.

To the credit of the Java community they keep the language relevant and refreshed.

I agree it’s always about 1-2 years behind other languages in terms of features but most enterprises don’t give a damn. Most enterprises just want to get work done. They don’t care about functional or OO.

In the last 3 years I have seen maybe 40% of developers use the latest features from java 8.

So while java might be slow to catch up that’s what it’s customers want.

Spring and Vert.x and similar Java frameworks will always keep Java relevant that it will be hard to ignore

> Some of these people who compare Java to Cobol have no idea....at this point Java is so widely used in the enterprise that it’s foolhardy to think that Java will disappear anytime soon.

Isn't that PART of the Java to Cobol comparison? Someone making that comparison wouldn't be saying that Java will disappear anytime soon.

COBOL is a valid comparison in terms of its space occupied and the verbosity the language is. The difference is cobol is really mainframe era and java is mini / unix era. Its client side except via phone is largely gone. But like cobol still in mainframe apps, so would be java. We do not see that gone as mini/unix not dying.

The windows server running java is an area I am not sure and not much encountered. But windows and Microsoft languages are the only competitor here.

I’ve actually seen enterprise apps on Java deployed on a Windows server in some big banks.

Client-side is gone on most languages. While there's still native mobile apps (and some rare desktop apps), the only language available on the client-side for the web is javascript or languages that can be transpiled to javascript. Flash, cold fusion and other stuff are gone. It's not a "Java is dead" thing.

Clojure doesn't fit in the original poster's "last 10 years" qualifier. It's older than that.

>LLVM has replaced JVM as a programming language target bytecode in the last 10 years (except Kotlin no new JVM language)

LLVM only emerged as a major target in the "last 10 years", so there's that.

And JVM already had so many major languages it didn't really have much space for others (Scala, Clojure, Groovy, and so on, including fully working clones of Ruby and Python).

Still, 4 major new languages: Scala, Clojure, Groovy, Kotlin -- all in the TIOBE top 50, from a single platform (which wasn't designed to be a language neutral target in the first place, it just happened because of it being too successful), plus the number one TIOBE index spot (Java), sounds like enough.

llvm is not a vm. describing llvm as something that is replacing the jvm doesn't really make sense.

mentioning javascript or webassembly is also a bit strange and would seem to demonstrate some kind of misunderstanding.

In 1995-2005, JVM was a serious competitor for the web, it's why JavaScript was named JavaScript.

javascript is named javascript for marketing purposes. your example is an almost stereotypical misunderstanding by people unfamiliar with java.

Those marketing purposes are exactly what dtech is referring to.

marketing purposes being a non-technical thing, which isn't a very meaningful support to saying something like js/webassembly are replacing the jvm.